Due: Monday, May 4, 2009Read chapter 6. What evidence can you find in this chapter about the concept of the "self-made man?" To what extent is Gatsby self-made? What commentary is Fitzgerald making about self-made men in 1920s America?
Saturday, May 2, 2009
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Gatsby can definitely be considered a "self-made man". He stumbled upon luck also which helped in making him something special. After his work with Dan Cody, Gatsby became sort of obsessed with success, wealth, and luxury. From there i would consider the beginning of his self man making process. He came from nothing and then through his hard work he rose to something bigger. "He was left with his singularly appropriate education; the vague contour of Jay Gatsby had filled out to the substantiality of a man". Through his lucky experiences with Cody he was able to take from that and become a better man...and in a way recreate himself and from there take off on his on. Im not really sure what self-made men meant during the 1920s- it can definitely be looked down by some i'm sure- but this concept has certainly carried on to todays society minus the negativity towards it.
ReplyDeleteIn this chapter you can see that a "self-made man" is someone that does not come into fortune very easily and has to work for it. Fitzgerald shows this by describing Gatsby (or Gatz) as "a clam-digger and a salmon-fisher or in a any other capacity that brought him a bead". After saying that it goes on to say that that Gatsby had always wanted fortune. This is showing that Gatsby started as a man with nothing but had the will to be more than nothing and it is on that will that he found a way. This is very symbolic of Gatsby because it shows that he has worked from the bottom to the top because of his want and his will.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bailey. Gatsby having to do everything himself made him more of a "self-made" man. With his "shiftless and unsuccessful" parents, he had to be very independent and if he wanted to go anywhere in life, he had to be very self motivated. When Dan Cody came along, Gatsby saw a new opportunity, and in a way became obsessed with the life of the rich and luxurious. Even though he had a new obsession he was still extremely disgusted with the alcoholic habits of Cody. He kept himself separated from all of that and discovered that some parts of "the good life" weren't all that fabulous. Gatsby chose to expand with the money he earned and turned into a "self-made man."
ReplyDeleteKudos to Bailey, Devon, and Becca for their good responses so far, and especially for using quotations to support your positions. When considering the idea of the "self-made man," think about men other than Gatsby as either exemplars or negative examples as well. Was Dan Cody self-made? What sort of a man was he? What about Tom Buchanan? What do you think he feels about self-made men like Gatsby (let alone his feelings toward those who are not white "Nordics" like him)? What about Nick? Given all of this evidence, can you work out what the novel's subtext might be about the place of the self-made man in American society at the time? You might also think about the idea of the American Dream. What is it? What commentary might Fitzgerald be making about it in this novel? Keep the good thoughts coming!
ReplyDeleteI agree with Bailey and Becca's observation of how Gatsby evolved into a "self-made man" thanks to the family life he was brought up with. Because of his "shiftless and unsuccessful" parents, his independence was quickly established, and over time, so was his connection with Dan Cody. Dan Cody gave Gatsby a glimpse of the life of the successful and luxurious, which attracted him instantly. Gatsby had a strong connection with Cody whether Cody was sober or not: "...for Dan Cody sober knew what lavish doings Dan Cody drunk might soon be about, and he provided for such contingencies by reposing more and more trust in Gatsby." But unfortunately after Cody's death the legacy of twenty-five thousand dollars, which he inherited to Gatsby, was never given to him. Afterwards, Gatsby could only rely on his knowledge and experiences to motivate him to find success. His struggles and journey for success is what makes Gatsby a "self-made man." He is always working hard and generous to others. In Tom Buchanan's case, referring to him as a "self-made man" when he is known to ache for the "what is used to be" would not be fair in comparison.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gatsby is a self-made man. According to the chapter, because Gatsby was born and raised under "shiftless and unsuccessful" parents, he wanted to live a life better than what he had then and started to look for that life by himself in his early step of life. The biggest evidence that he is a self-made man is that he changed his name, which is a very big thing because he is completely changing his identity by himself. To compare Gatsby to Tom Buchannon who inherited the money and lived the life that was given to him is not a self-made man. However, Gatsby finally meets Dan Cody in the middle of his "self making process" and from then, his life had catch luck and he got the life that he looked for, created by Jay Gatsby himself.
ReplyDeleteJay Gatsby in "The Great Gatsby," can be considered as a "self-made man." The term "self-made man" is a phrase we use for people who created or searched for their sources of life by themselves. In this chapter, the author said, "..he must be about His Father's business, the service of a vast, vulgar, and meretricious beauty." Jay Gatsby (James Gatz) did not want to inherit this shameful (from his perspective) farming job from his father, and therefore he changed his own name to start his new career. And for his success, he even disconnected his relationship with his parents. "his imagination had never really accepted them as his parents at all."
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, this is one of the evidences that Fitzerald gave us as a comment to "self-made" during 1920s. Removing relationship with their parents has always been considered as the most immoral actions. Even though Nick narrated this sentence in a neutral atmosphere, the readers would think that 'abandoning parental relationship in order to succeed' is not right. And that is the point Fitzerald might want to address to us.
Also, from the beginning of the book, ("just remember that all the people in this world haven't had the advantages that you've had." or "it is hard to realize that a man in my own generation was wealthy enough to do that.") the author frequently hinted that people who are "rich from the beginning" (Nick or Tom) are quite advantageous over other people. And when Gatsby says, "It took me just three years to earn the money that bought it" in chapter 5, it even made me think he is not as rich as I thought. (Even though he might be rich now.) And since I was viewing Gatsby as a "very" rich person from the beginning with the fact that he opens parties on his lawn every weekend, it kind of dissapointed me. Therefore, I think the author wanted to say that the perspective toward "self-made man" during 1920s was not as pleasant as "rich-from-the-beginning man."
According to Fitzgerald, a self-made man is one who lives by his imagination and is unaffected by his upbringing. "So he invented just the sort of Gatsby that a seventeen-year-old boy would be likely to invent, and to this conception he was faithful to the end." This defines a self-made man, a man who lives according to his ambitious dream. Luck might have been on Gatsby's side, for he met Dan Cody and began to explore and desire the world of the rich. However, it was his ambitious goal and imagination that brought him to create the future Great Gatsby. Gatsby's strong motives allowed him to suffer through all the hard times as a janitor, "clam digger and a salmon-fisher." Tom and Nick do not live up to this conception. Wealth had been in their favor since their young age.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gatsby is definitely a "self-made man". As he said earlier on in the book, he lost all the money from his family and after the war he had to make it again. I also agree with everyone else that said that the fact that he left his family to earn his money makes him more of a "self-made man". He had his ambitions (which became even higher when he met Dan Cody) which were higher than being a farmer like his father. I don't think that Nick is a self-made man, since he got what he has from his father, and Tom is definitely not a self-made man and he really seems to look down on "newly rich" man from West Egg, as he says: "A lot of these newly rich people are just big bootleggers, you know?" He seems to think that even though Gatsby might be just as rich as he is, he's still inferior because 1st of all he lives in West Egg and also because he wasn't always rich.
ReplyDeleteI think that Gatsby becomes motivated to become rich and have a good life when he gets cheated out of the inheritance from his friend Dan Cody. Because of what happend he doesnt trust anyone and want to work with them. Which is why he is a self-made man. I think he thinks he is just a normal wealthy man when everyone around him concideres him to be self-made, Because usually self-made men are very grateful for what they have and may be reluctant to use their money for lavish things. Gatsby on the other hand is very generous with his money.
ReplyDeleteWe see two completely different self-made men in this chapter. Dan Cody is a "physically robust" man, but wastes his money on drink and women, and made his money from hard labor in the Yukon. While Jay Gatsby also happened on his destiny, he wheeled and dealed his way into the confidences of the stupid Cody.
ReplyDeleteTom Buchanon does not respect the self-made Cody because he is dirty and lowly. "The low stay low" is his belief, and with Dan Cody this holds true. He is swindled out of his money and dies unremembered.
Jay Gatsby, however, is different. He sculpts his image. "So he invented just the sort of Jay Gatsby that a seventeen year old boy would be likely to invent, and to this conception he was faithful to the end." In a way, James Gatz has always been Jay Gatsby--the dreamer, the restless heart. "For a while these revereis provided an outlet for ihs imagination; they were a satisfactory hint of the unreality of reality, a promise that he rock of the world was founded securely on a fairy's wing."
Dan Cody and Jay Gatsby both spend their ridiculous wealth, but there is a difference. Cody spends to pleasure his body; Gatsby spends to find the solution to his soul.
As my classmates have said, I think Gatsby is a self-made man because he came from a very low socioeconomic class and found a way to be among the high circles of society. It says that Gatsby had an idea of who he wanted to be at a young age and that's he's always been loyal to that idea. What I thought was really interesting in the passage is how Fitzgerald compares Gatsby's past to the present. "His life had been confused and disordered since then, but if he could once return to a certain starting place and go over it all slowly, he could find out what that thing was...", this shows that while he has made himself a successful man, he might not be entirely happy with the person that he has become.
ReplyDeleteI agree with everyone above. Gatsby was self-made man because he had to work for what he has. The respected rich people at that time were people that just inherited it or received it somehow without working. Being a self-made rich man and a rich man is just the difference between worked for money and easy money. After having seen the luxurious lifestyle he became determined to have that as well and ended up getting that.
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